Well, today's interview is going to be a little bit different and it might be a stretch for some people.

But if you start listening to it and you think, oh, this is just old school sales interview.

Fast forward to the last 20 minutes.

Then you'll get it.

Because today's guest has made understanding his industry, his clients, his competitive advantage.

He digs in deeper than probably anybody I've ever

interviewed and you won't sense that till close to the end of the interview so don't

discount this and your industry might be a little bit different

but this curiosity this desire to become a student at least of the industry has separated himself from all the competition.

Will it work in your industry? I don't know. It's up to you. But what it does is it gives you something to talk to your market about and with, which is critical and overlooked.

Because when you talk about the product you're in the

commodity trap. You got to talk about their situation, their problems, what they're facing, what they care about.

But how do you do that?

Well, it's not intuitive, it's counterintuitive. So somebody's got to kind of show you or you can spend 15 years

figuring it out? Start the conversation, get the meeting solves this problem.

Check that out.

Before we get into the interview, I want to ask yourself something.

If there was a sales simulator, would you use it? Meaning just you bring up an

app and you start talking to it, asking it questions, just like every sales call.

Just pretend as you're on the phone or on Zoom.

Do you think that would help you become better at sales?

Let me ask you a question.

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