How the War on Terror Created a New Generation of Enemies (with CIA Whistleblower John Kiriakou)

Change Agents with Andy Stumpf

IRONCLAD

Society & Culture

4.9 • 648 Ratings

🗓️ 28 May 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On today’s episode, Andy sits down with former CIA officer John Kiriakou to discuss his path into the Agency, the unconventional recruitment process, and his firsthand experience with enhanced interrogation and rendition operations. Kiriakou shares the moral and ethical dilemmas he faced, what ultimately led him to speak out, and the personal consequences of becoming a whistleblower. The conversation also explores the political environment during the Bush administration, the evolution of U.S. counterterrorism strategies after 9/11, and Kiriakou’s perspective on the current crisis in Gaza and the broader implications of American foreign policy. Change Agents is an IRONCLAD Original Sponsors: Firecracker FarmUse code IRONCLAD to get 15% off your first order at https://firecracker.farm/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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1:10.1	We sent him to a third country, an extraordinary rendition, and he broke in two days and spilled everything.
1:11.6	I have no idea what they did to him.
1:14.6	And when I asked, jokingly, one of their officers, he said, oh, we gave him a cup of tea
1:21.6	and an offer he couldn't refuse.
1:24.6	And that's all he would say.
1:26.6	How can I help? How can I be useful in ending and refuse. And that's all he would say.
1:29.2	How can I help?
1:32.5	How can I be useful in ending needless suffering?
	...

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