we really are talking about what happens when the logics of capitalism enter into our psyches,

our souls, our relationships with one another. It's painful. It's very, very painful. But I think

we should use the right words for it. Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us. I'm your host, Paris Marks. Welcome to

2024 and a new year in Tech Won't Save Us.

My first guest of the year is Naomi Klein. She is an award-winning journalist in New York Times

best-selling author whose most recent book is Doppelganger, a trip into the mirror world. She's also

a columnist at The Guardian, the founding co-director of the UBC Center for Climate Justice, and

a professor of climate

justice at the University of British Columbia.

Naomi Klein is someone whose work has been very influential to me over the years.

So it was a real privilege to have her on the show, to discuss her new book, and to dig into

these very important topics.

It'll be no surprise for you to hear that there seems to be a wave of

conspiratorial thinking and a significant shift to the far right happening in our societies

that is incredibly concerning and that we need to figure out kind of why this is happening and

how to confront it. In this book, Naomi discusses, you know, her kind of adventure

into what she calls the mirror world where she is kind of paying attention to these narratives

and how people like Steve Bannon or Naomi Wolf, her doppelganger, take critiques that

the left used to make or, you know, in some cases still makes, but reframes them in such a way that it

works for their ends and their goals and their kind of political project, right, to show people

that they recognize that people aren't working in the system as it exists, but to give people

answers that lead them down this path where the structural problems are not actually being addressed,

...