How the Horse Changed the World: Interview with Author David Chaffetz

Tides of History

Wondery / Patrick Wyman

Documentary, Society & Culture, History

4.8 • 6.3K Ratings

🗓️ 31 July 2025

⏱️ 46 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

David Chaffetz, author of the recent and truly outstanding book Raiders, Rulers, and Traders: The Horse and the Rise of Empires, joins Tides to talk about the long and intertwined history of horses and people in Central Asia and beyond. The trade in horses, not silks and spices, was the true connective tissue joining together the ancient and medieval worlds.

Patrick's book is now available! Get The Verge: Reformation, Renaissance, and Forty Years that Shook the World in hardcopy, ebook, or audiobook (read by Patrick) here: https://bit.ly/PWverge. And check out Patrick's new podcast The Pursuit of Dadliness! It’s all about “Dad Culture,” and Patrick will interview some fascinating guests about everything from tall wooden ships to smoked meats to comfortable sneakers to history, sports, culture, and politics. https://bit.ly/PWtPoD

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Tides of History early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
0:12.2	Hi, everybody. From Wondery, welcome to another episode of Tides of History. I'm Patrick Wyman.
0:21.6	Thanks so much for joining me today.
0:24.2	When we think about all of the human past over the last 10,000 or so years, the domestication
0:29.2	of plants and animals plays a central role in any story we might choose to tell. This is, without
0:34.7	exaggeration, the greatest dividing line, albeit one that's not easy to pinpoint, in the entire history of our species.
0:40.3	We changed our domestics through selective breeding, and in turn, they changed us from the foundations of how we get enough food to survive to our ways of thinking about and understanding the world.
0:51.3	The horse came later to our stable of domesticates than sheep or wheat, but its impact
0:57.3	has been no less momentous. It's been a simple tool and a symbol of power and status, but on a
1:02.9	broader scale, the horse has fundamentally altered the political, cultural, and economic
1:07.1	landscape of the planet. Today's guest has written a really, really interesting and
1:12.0	compelling book on this topic, and I cannot wait to discuss it with him today.
1:16.5	David Chafetz is a member of the Royal Society for Asian Affairs, a contributor to the Asian
1:20.8	review of books, and the author of multiple works, including three Asian divas, and a journey through
1:26.3	Afghanistan. The book we're going to talk
1:28.5	about today is entitled Raiders, Rulers, and Traders, the Horse and the Rise of Empires. David,
1:34.4	thank you so much for joining me today. It's a pleasure, Patrick. So why write a book on the horse?
1:40.7	Did you have past experience of horses before writing this?
1:49.4	So I think it's a very good question. Would anyone write a book about horses who had no interest or experience of horses? And my guess is not. But they are two separate questions,
1:54.9	right? So as you said, the horse changes everything. So anybody who wants to understand history has to understand the history
2:02.4	of the horse. Now, the second part of that question is who's qualified right to history of the
2:08.0	horse? I'm trying to put myself forward as someone who is. It started with a trip I took
	...

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