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Emirates, fly better. This is Recode Media with Peter Kafka. That is me. Speaking to you from

Fox Media headquarters in New York City, delighted that I have Gabriel Sherman on the show. Wanted him for a long

time. Finally got him here because he's got a TV show of all things about Roger Ailes. Welcome, Gabe. Thanks, Peter. Your brief bio, New York Magazine writer for a long time, now at Vanity Fair, wrote a book about Roger Ailes, and now there is a TV miniseries on Roger Ailes. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. Did you imagine there was going to be a Roger Ailes

miniseries on television? The short answer is no. You know, you never think as a reporter when you

set out to cover a story that it's going to grow to the level where, you know, Hollywood would want to

get involved. So, you know, it's surreal when I was on set during production to see, you know, Russell Crow, who's, you know, an actor, obviously I've watched my entire adult life to see him inhabiting this role. He really became Roger Ailes and gave me nightmares at certain points because I felt like Roger was back from the dead.

He's very intimidating. I mean, in, in, Wells was in real life and Crow.

Yeah, and that's why I feel like it is such a perfect marriage of, of actor and subject.

They both are larger than life people who command a room.

...