Portia, welcome to Lockton all the way from Utah to get here today. Thanks for having me. Yeah, isn't that like Mormon County in Utah? I've had a couple of Utah people on recently that were like Mormon and their story is very fascinating. Yep, and that would be me as well. Oh, you grew up Mormon too? Yeah, I'm yep. Oh, wow. They call it the Church of Jesus Christ ofatter-day Saints, but yep, I'm a member of that church.

So you grew up like no coffee? Our family was a little bit of, yes, initially, but I was pretty wild when it came pretty rebellious as far as a Mormon goes in my younger years. Well, before we hear more about all this, I want to plug in your books that you brought me here today. if you want to tell the audience what these two books are

where they can find them and all that.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I wrote Living Louder, which is my experience in prison. And then a couple years later, I wrote Born to Be Brave, which is more experiences since I got home. And I talk about the people that I've met, a lot of them who've been incarcerated, more men's prison experiences. The first one was my experience in prison with women, so. Good for you on two books. Most people can't even get out one when you're pumping them away. Thanks. Yeah. That's awesome. So who did you grow up with in Utah? Who did I grow up with? Yeah, like mom, dad, siblings. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'm the oldest of seven children, and I lived with my parents.

My father was a Vietnam vet, so he had pretty intense PTSD.

He had received two purple hearts for gunshot wounds.

And my mom was like a super hippie.

And we grew up out in the country. And so my mom didn't believe

any rules or boundaries. So I grew up just playing and having fun outside. And then my teenagers

is when I decided to get wild, I guess, you would say. So what did she do for work?

My mom was a photographer. And my father had side hustles, but they were also real estate investors. So that's kind of how I got into that.

So they had enough money to support the family despite like that lifestyle? Yes. My parents, I mean,

they both had side businesses and then we lived on the outskirts of a small town. So the expense wasn't,

you know, exorbitant to live there. Did you guys struggle for money or?

No, I would say we were middle class.

So we always had enough.

Were you close with your siblings?

I always say I was like a gang leader because I was the oldest.

And so and because things were pretty chaotic because there weren't boundaries or rules, we ran pretty wild outside and I kind of ran the group. So I wasn't as close to him as I am now. But yeah.

Aside from being a leader, how else would you describe yourself as a kid?

Stubborn and determined, pretty rebellious. I struggled big time in my younger years with

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