Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I'm the editor in chief of Current Affairs Magazine.

My guest today is Professor Rebecca Giblin. She is professor at Melbourne Law School and

Director of the Intellectual Property Research Institute of Australia. Also, the co-author with Corey Doctoro of the new book,

Choke Point Capitalism,

How Big Tech and Big Content Captured Creative Labor Markets

and How Will Win Them Back.

Professor Giblin, thank you for coming on Corrid Farras. So happy to be here. How will win them back? Professor Giblin.

Thank you for coming on current Ferris.

So happy to be here.

Your book is about power. How power is exercised by giant corporations

in order to squeeze wealth out of those who produce,

especially content.

You look at lots of different industries,

but you're focused in particular on books,

music, film, game development.

But you center, as the title,, this concept of the choke point.

So I wonder if we could begin with an explanation of what that is, why you chose to frame this as choke point capitalism.

Yes, so when we started working on this, we knew that there was a problem, but we didn't exactly know that it was the same problem everywhere. And it was really only, I guess, the final redrafting of the book where we

were like, well, hang on a minute. This is actually, everybody's playing from the same playbook.

There is a pattern here that is allowing these big corporations

to shake everybody down.

And like you say, it's not just creators.

...