It's extremely important to make sure that the collaborations are doing are a win-win.

That doesn't mean that both of you have a big audience.

That doesn't mean that there's money involved even.

It just needs to be a win-win.

It's really, really, really important to understand what people's values are and to know what is going to incentivize them to say yes.

Okay, so Jordan, I am super happy to have you on this podcast. And I know the listener who doesn't

know you yet can hear this little bio and then it's going to really listen to what you have to say

about collapse. But as like a

multi-seven figure business strategist whose mission is for high achieving business owners to

prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue. And I understand that a lot more, especially after we

talked for the last, what was it, 30 minutes before we hit record.

But then also on your podcast, that's called System Saved Me, where you go behind the scenes,

like for the successes of business and kind of spotlighting those invisible systems that people

have never heard of. I, listening to your podcast, get the systems part,

but then when I look at your Instagram, I've seen so much that makes me just want to

title you the collab queen. So my first question is, along with the title of this podcast,

like, how do you feel that collabing can blow

up an online course creator's business? Yeah, well, you think about just in general in business,

when you are trying to get more sales, trying to get more leads, trying to get more attention,

people tend to go this like

one-to-one route where they're hoping that this one person responds to a DM shout-out or this one

person who is listening to your podcast, right? And those things are good and fine and I do those too, right?

...