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In the worst case scenarios, right, depending on the disasters themselves

which you can't really predict, you could see a state of a permanent downward spiral driven by heat,

driven by sea level rise, is similar downward cycle has happened in like in Avalatia,

or in the Midwest, rest belt after the deindustrialization phenomenon.

It's not like nobody lives there, but there's not a lot of new money coming in.

And that I think is like, for a lot of people, it's as scary as the disaster.

Hello and welcome to the 538 Politics Podcast. I'm Galen Drute.

For decades, Americans have been moving south and west.

That migration pattern was visible in political terms when seven congressional districts moved states after the 2020 census,

and it continues to be visible in the booming construction and job markets in cities across the Sun Belt.

Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Austin, Phoenix.

In his new book though, author Jake Biddle makes the case that it's only a matter of time before those trends reverse,

or at least shift. Although this time he argues, it won't be cheap housing, low taxes, and plentiful jobs that attract people to new places,

it will be a harshening climate that pushes them away.

His new book is called The Great Displacement, Climate Change, and the next American migration, and he joins me now. Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me. Thanks so much for being here. So this book is really not focused on what if scenarios based on levels of carbon emissions.

If this isn't about imploring people to use electric cars or eat less meat or whatever you have, it just acknowledges as a given that the climate in America is changing,

...