How a Spy in Your Pocket Threatens the End of Privacy, Dignity, and Democracy
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 17 January 2023
⏱️ 43 minutes
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Summary
Lawfare fellow in technology policy and law Eugenia Lostri sat down with Laurent Richard and Sandrine Rigaud to talk about their new book, “Pegasus: How a Spy in Your Pocket Threatens the End of Privacy, Dignity, and Democracy.” Laurent is the founder and executive director of Forbidden Stories, and Sandrine is its editor-in-chief. Along with Amnesty International’s Security Lab, they led the investigative effort by 17 international media organizations that in July 2021 exposed how some governments regularly used the Pegasus spyware against journalists, human rights activists, political dissidents, and others. Their new book tells the story of how they conducted this investigation. Laurent and Sandrine talked about the operational security concerns they had to balance, how they coordinated this international effort, and the impact of their work.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising. |
| 0:04.0 | To access an ad-free version of the LawFair podcast, |
| 0:08.0 | become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash law fair. |
| 0:14.0 | That's patreon.com slash law fair. |
| 0:18.0 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, |
| 0:22.0 | rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:29.0 | I think the question is not about should we have some spyware or not? |
| 0:39.0 | Is more about how do we control that? |
| 0:41.0 | Who is in charge of controlling any kind of misuse? |
| 0:45.0 | And what is the mechanism to protect citizens if, tomorrow, |
| 0:49.0 | they learn that they have been targeted? |
| 0:51.0 | So it's more about that. |
| 0:53.0 | And more than one year after the publication of the Biggest Project, |
| 0:57.0 | we don't have so far anything more to protect the citizens. |
| 1:01.0 | So this is why we should be concerned. |
| 1:05.0 | But we still have a cyber industry extremely resilient, |
| 1:11.0 | and that is setting contracts after contracts day after day. |
| 1:15.0 | I am Eugenia Lerthvi, fellow in technology policy and law at LawFair. |
| 1:21.0 | And this is the LawFair podcast January 17, 2023. |
| 1:25.0 | I sat down with Laurent Rishabh and Centro Ingrigor to talk about their new book, Pegasus. |
| 1:33.0 | Laurent is the founder and executive director of FairBitton Stories. |
| 1:37.0 | And Centro In is its editor-in-chief. |
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