This is the reason interview with Nick Gillespie.

My guest today is University of Texas historian John Lyle.

He's the author of the chilling and brilliantly researched new book Project Mind Control,

Sidney Gottlieb, the CIA, and the tragedy of M.K. Ultra.

You probably have heard of M.K. Ultra. It was a secret Cold War initiative that tried to weaponize LSD, hypnosis, and psychiatry to defeat the Soviets, to find a truth syrup, among other things.

Despite official attempts to destroy records of the CIA's search for mind control in the 1950s and 60s, the truth has been dribbling out since the mid-70s, and especially

in recent books and documentaries like Stephen Kinzer's Poysner-in-Chief and Errol Morris's

Wormwood. Lyle's work draws on previously unknown depositions and documents to deliver the

most definitive and by far the most disturbing account yet.

We discussed the twisted logic of Cold War secrecy, the bizarre figures behind America's

darkest experiments on its own citizens, and what MK Ultra reveals about the dangers

of unchecked power in a democracy.

And this might be the most important thing.

We talk about why conspiracy theories thrive in the absence of transparency and how we can preserve skepticism without surrendering to paranoia.

Here is the Reason interview with John Lyle.

John Lyle, thanks for talking to Reason.

Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it.

All right.

The book is Project Mind Control, Sydney Gottlieb, the CIA and the tragedy of M.K. Ultra.

I suspect that are more conspiracy-minded and history-minded listeners and watchers know what MK Ultra is, but

summarize what MK Ultra was.

...