You're listening to the Allender Center podcast with Dr. Dan Allender.

This week, I'm excited to continue my conversation with Dan about the vines and complexities

based by many pastors and Christian leaders.

Why do we place our leaders on pedestals only to fill a sense of relief when they fall off?

This conversation invites us to consider the nature of hope, envy, the brokenness in our stories, and the coming

fullness of the kingdom of God. The last time we were together, we addressed the issues of the bind

that most leaders are in. most leaders, whether they're in

the so-called secular or Christian realm, but even more so, those who lead with their character

and lead in the context of attempting to invite people into relationship with Christ.

And Rachel and I began to try and put words

to what the bind is, what the experience is like, what the consequences are. Anything

that you'd want to do, Rachel, to summarize where we were? That was a look of, prepare me next time for questions like that is that a fair way of putting it

oh that's really fair don't don't just lead me with the insanity of your own thinking yeah well

let me summarize then to say uh it feels like the bind is we require people to be, in one sense, far more mature

than we are, while simultaneously a certain degree of relief when they indicate that they are not.

How many times has there been moral failure in the body of Christ?

And I hear people then refer to that pastor, that Christian

leader with kind of a, can you believe it? Can you believe after all I heard him say that he would

do something like this? And again, there is an incredulity. There should be an incredulity,

but almost a kind of, I knew he would betray, or somebody like him would betray,

and almost a relief that there are these inconsistent and hypocrisy-oriented leaders.

I mean, leaders are put in an incredible bind between being deeply needed and also deeply

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