Holy Smoke: What can we expect from the papal conclave?

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🗓️ 27 April 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

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Summary

Earlier this year Dr Kurt Martens, Professor of Canon Law at the Catholic University of America, joined Damian Thompson on Holy Smoke to unpack what happens during a papal conclave. There was heightened interest in the process due to the film Conclave, which swept the awards season, but also because Pope Francis was hospitalised at the time.

Despite showing some signs of recovery – including being able to meet world leaders such as King Charles III and J.D. Vance – Pope Francis died on Easter Monday.

Here we reissue the episode with Dr Martens, looking at what happens when a pope dies, with a new introduction from Damian. Writing the cover article for the Spectator this week, Damian writes: ‘the next Vicar of Christ will face challenges that dwarf those that confronted any incoming pope in living memory. The Church is mired in doctrinal confusion; its structures of government are fragmented; sexual scandals have been hushed up at the highest level; and it is staring into a financial abyss’. What can we expect from the upcoming conclave?

Produced by Patrick Gibbons.

Transcript

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0:00.0	If you enjoyed the Spectator's podcasts, why not subscribe to the magazine as well?
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0:10.6	if you go to spectator.com.uk forward slash voucher.
0:14.7	This is a podcast-only deal, and we hope you take us up on it.
0:32.2	Welcome to Holy Smoke, the Spectators' Religion podcast.
0:34.4	I'm Damien Thompson.
0:47.0	On Saturday morning, some 400,000 people attended the funeral of Pope Francis and lined the streets of Rome as his body was carried to his tomb in the basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore. And it's expected that the ancient and secret
0:58.3	ritual of a conclave will begin somewhere around May the 5th. This is another opportunity to hear a
1:06.5	conversation, I thought an absolutely fascinating one, that I had a couple of months ago with Dr. Kurt
1:13.1	Martins, one of the world's leading Catholic canon lawyers, in which I asked him, what exactly
1:20.2	happens at a conclave? We're very lucky to be joined today by one of the world's most
1:26.0	distinguished Catholic canon lawyers, Dr.
1:29.3	Kurt Martins, who's a professor of canon law at the Catholic University in America, in Washington, D.C.
1:37.1	And he's here to tell us a little bit about the process of a conclave, the very complicated
1:43.1	traditional sequence of events that begins when
1:46.6	a pope breathes his last and ends when his successor walks on to the balcony of St. Peter's.
1:54.4	I remember being there. In 2005, when Cardinal Ratzingale walked out as Pope Benedict,
1:59.3	that was a very happy moment for me
2:01.8	and for many other people. Who could have guessed that his pontificate would have ended in such a
2:06.1	crushing anti-climax? Anyway, Kurt, welcome to Holy Smoke. Could you begin by taking us through
2:14.3	the process leading up to the conclave, because that's very often when the
2:19.1	crucial decisions are made, often in informal conversations inside the Vatican once the Cardinals
	...

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