We are living through a great choke point in the history of this country. What you saw in 2020 and its aftermath was a deeply Christian movement. The institutional character of Christianity is often rejected as part of the problem, a part of what has to be rejected, even though it is that institutional structure that has provided people with the ideological framework that enables them to judge it as evil.

Essentially, what Christianity has that Islam does not is a concept of the secular.

Islam is a totalizing way of leading your life. I think Islam is a concept of the secular. Islam is a totalizing way of leading your life.

I think Islam is uniquely indigestible for a secular mindset.

And people don't want to admit that.

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To join us. Tom Holland, welcome back to Trigonometry.

Thanks very much for having you back.

It's been a while. It's great to have you back on the show.

In the meantime, by the way, you and Dominic, who's also a recent guest that was,

have had tremendous success.

So congratulations on the rest of this history.

It's absolutely crushing.

How are you handling your newfound fame?

Oh, I'm struggling.

I'm really struggling.

It's amazing.

I mean, we never in a million years imagined that there was quite the appetite for history that there is.

And so I'm happy not just for myself, not just for Dominic, but for history lovers everywhere

that they can be reassured that history, it really does seem to kind of tick people's boxes

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