I received a message for my dad early morning October 7th, and he shared with me that war just started.

Five minutes after, I'm trying to call my dad again, and this time there is no answer.

Only four in the afternoon, but one of the neighbors suddenly picked the phone.

He told us that our parents' house is burned to ashes with two bodies inside.

My young brother told us we must make a family decision that we are rejecting revenge.

As for Israel on Palestine, there's lots of despair.

The message we bring is we know the pain.

We talk about the pain.

We talk about how horrible things are.

We talk about the structural imbalance, the asymmetry.

But we also talk about hope.

Hello and welcome to Ways to Change the World. I'm Christian and Guru Murphy. And this is the podcast

where we talk to extraordinary people about the big ideas and their lives and the events

that have helped shape them. My guests today are two men whose lives have been shaped by loss

and are now driven by the idea that peace is not only imaginable, but urgently necessary.

Their story begins on opposite sides of a conflict that has taken so much from both of them.

Yet in the aftermath of October 7th,

what emerged between them was not hatred, but a partnership.

Aziz Abu-Sara and Mao Zinan are peace activists

and co-authors of the Future is Peace,

a book that traces their personal histories

and the history of their shared landscape.

...