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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Heather McGhee returns to talk Trump, race, and empathy

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 22 November 2016

⏱️ 60 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

There are few episodes of this show that people loved as much as my conversation with Heather McGhee, president of the think tank Demos. Our first discussion focused on race, class, populism, and the sometimes toxic ways the three interact. It's a topic I wanted to revisit in the aftermath of Trump's election, and so I asked Heather back to the show. After this conversation, I'm very, very glad I did. Among other things, we discussed:-The three factors that explain the election results-Why race is a more complex force in politics than either liberals or conservatives assume-The dangers of Democrats convincing themselves that populism and racial justice are either/or-Her experience talking with a white man who realized he was prejudiced, and asked her help in changing-Why Clinton lost states Obama won-Why Clinton didn't outperform Obama among nonwhite voters-Why the core of modern racism is seeing some races as made of individuals and others as collectives-Whether the very language around race and racism makes empathy more difficult-How Democrats should think about cooperating — and not cooperating — with TrumpAnd, as always, much more. Heather is brilliant on these topics, and this is worth listening to.Also, a lot of you have asked for an episode where I answer your questions, and we're going to make it happen. So send your questions for me to ezrakleinshow@vox.com.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

The following podcast contains explicit language.

0:09.3

Hello, welcome to another episode of the Ezra Client Show. I am Ezra Client.

0:13.2

And this week we have our first returning guest, Heather McGee, the president of Demos,

0:17.8

which is a fantastic think tank. Heather was a guest on the show a couple months back.

0:22.8

Very few episodes have had as positive a response from you all. She is particularly

0:28.1

just genuinely brilliant on the intersection of race, of class, of politics.

0:33.1

And the conversation we had then was one I really wanted to revisit in the aftermath of the election.

0:38.6

So I think this is a conversation very much worth hearing. Heather has a perspective on this

0:44.1

that is really worth sitting down with for a little while and absorbing. So I'm grateful to her

0:49.2

for coming back. I think you all will really enjoy this. It has certainly left me with a lot to

0:53.2

think about. And she has a story in there about someone she met on C-SPAN, who she has been

0:58.3

having a fascinating cross-racial dialogue with that is worth the price of admission on its own.

1:03.3

So I hope you enjoy. I've got a couple requests this week, including a new one.

1:07.0

So one thing you all have been asking me to do is to do and ask me anything podcast where I

1:12.7

answer your questions as opposed to interviewing someone else about my questions.

1:16.8

I'd be happy to do that and give it a try. So email me at Ezra Client Show at vox.com or if you want

1:22.8

to hear your voice on the air, send an iPhone or I guess Android or whatever voice memo with your

1:27.7

question. And we will sometimes soon have an episode where I go through your questions for me,

1:33.3

which I hope will be fun. So yeah, Ezra Client Show at vox.com send me your questions, email me,

1:37.6

your voice memo questions, and we will do that sometime very soon. As always, I appreciate it. I'm

1:43.2

grateful when you share this show and you put it on Facebook or email or when you tell someone

1:46.6

you're enjoying it. And when you tune into my other podcast, The Weeds, where Matt Glacies and

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