Welcome to Back from the Abyss. I'm Dr. Craig Hecock. I am so excited to share today's episode with all of you.

Usually we present a story of psychiatric healing, but today's episode is that and much, much more.

My guest today is my dear friend and trauma therapist Saiz Rajzvi, who weaves together

his three fascinating perspectives, that of a nationally recognized trauma expert, his own

personal story of early childhood neglect, and how this shaped everything

else to come. And finally, his long journey of healing the deepest wound a person can have,

eventually coming to MDMA and then psilocybin at the latter part of his therapy journey.

Part one today ends with Saja's profound and life-changing MDMA treatment.

Then, in part 2, Sajs share some surprising and hard-won lessons about using psilocybin for psychological healing.

A note to listeners, MDMA and psilocybin are both Schedule 1 illegal substances.

Saj's MDMA therapy session took place in the context of his

training to be a therapist in the MAPS, MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD study,

anti-silocybin session occurred in the Netherlands.

Sajun, I'm so excited to have you here today because, well, one, you have an amazing story, your own story of healing.

And two, you're my go-to trauma expert.

When I think of trauma questions and trauma musings, you're my man to talk to.

And three, I think you, more than almost anyone I know, have some of the most interesting

and potentially useful ideas and guidance and wisdom on the use of psychedelics and healing.

Thank you, Greg. Happy to be here.

So just as an introduction, Saj, you are the director of innate path in Denver.

Yeah, I'm the director of education

at innate path. Yeah, tell us more about innate path. Sure. Well, we are a, we do three things. We provide

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