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Music the app today. Search YouTube Kids. Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American politics, life and culture.

My name is Freddie Gray. I'm the deputy editor of The Spectator. I'm delighted today to be joined by Michael

Wolf, who is a great American journalist and author of many books, including most recently,

two famous, the rich, the powerful, the wishful, the notorious, the dams, 20 years of columns,

essays and reporting. Michael, it's a great pleasure to read this book,

because for me it sums up a lot about what I think about America, which is that sort of fame

has consumed American culture. And as a result, fame has consumed world culture. And I think you are the,

going to sound like a flatter here, but you are the best writer on fame. So it's sort of perfect

combination to read you on all these incredible subjects. And the last podcast we did together

was about Trump. But I think we probably have to start with him, because in a way,

he's the best representation of fame eating itself alive in American life. Well, yes, yes. I mean,

he is either the end game of fame or opening a new chapter to horrors yet to be imagined.

I mean, there's lots of people in the book, and there's a chapter on The Spectator, which I think

we need to come to. But I don't think he's your favorite famous person. I think he's probably

...