Today's show is brought to you by Valley of the Boom from National Geographic.

This all-new six-part limited series follows the stories of three companies trying to change the world through technology during Silicon Valley's unprecedented tech boom of the 1990s.

From the first browser wars to the story of a con artist who reinvents himself as a tech entrepreneur, these are the true stories of how the web was won.

Valley of the Boom premieres Sunday, January 13th at 9, 8th Central on National Geographic.

But you can watch the first two episodes right now, on demand, and on the Nat Geo TV app.

This is Recode Media with Peter Kafka.

That's me.

We are here at Vox Media headquarters in New York City.

I'm talking with the great Susan Crawford.

Hi, Susan.

Hey, Peter.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for coming.

You are a Harvard law professor, but I think of you as a smart person who explains the internet to me. I think of myself as a technological humanist. All right. That sounds less fun.

You're the person who explains how the internet works and doesn't work, specifically when I have

questions about broadband and net neutrality. I go to you and I was just talking to you off there.

We did this in 2014. There was a net neutrality decision and you should go Google. Google, Google Peter Kafka and Susan Crawford. You'll get a very, very cogent explanation of net neutrality law and what works and what doesn't. Today we're here because you have a book. I do. It's called Fiber, the coming tech revolution and why America might miss it. And just to set this up, so we spend a lot of time on this podcast talking about Netflix and Apple and Google and how a thing, and the fight to get things to your living room. We don't really spend much time about sort of physically how that's going to happen,

and that's your focus, how the bits get to your screens.

So you've talked in the past about sort of the dismal state of broadband in this country.

This seems like it's kind of a sequel, right?

Broadband is miserable, overpriced, controlled by a handful of companies.

Same thing with fiber.

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