Hello, everybody. Welcome to the ThoughtWorks Technology podcast. My name is Rebecca Parsons,

the CTO of ThoughtWorks, and I'm one of your regular co-hosts. And I'm joined by my other co-host,

Alexei, Alexei Villasbores, from San Paolo. Very happy to be here.

Great. And today we are joined by two guests. Isabel Carter is a developer working with the Office of the CTO on Research Projects.

And Ken McGrath is another member of our office of the CTO who has a long history in thinking about issues of DevOps and continuous delivery.

So welcome, Isabel, and Ken.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And today what we want to talk about is green or sustainable software engineering.

And I want to start by contextualizing this a little bit because we aren't going to talk about

all of the issues around green cloud.

And we know that's a big part of how organizations are looking to achieve their sustainability goals.

But we have a whole other podcast that's going to be focused on that.

So what we want to talk about instead are things more at the software development level.

So things around how we create our code, how we measure our code, how we test our code, things of that nature.

So to start off first, what are the reasons that this is even an important topic?

I mean, you know, is this just greenwashing?

I mean, I would say it's not really.

Even if we ignore the obvious answer of the environmental impact, there's definitely a business

case to be made for trying to create more energy efficient software.

Reducing the energy impact will save cost. Cost is the big one.

You'll reduce the cost of your data centers, if the offices you're in.

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