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Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness Podcast.

A lot of people really dislike conflict and have a low opinion of it.

They're uncomfortable with disagreements at the office, think there's no room for

contention at church, worry that fighting with their partner means the relationship is

destined to dissolve, and generally feel that heated arguments tear communities apart.

My guest today, Ian Leslie, used to be one of these conflict-versed people.

But as you discover in researching his new book, conflicted, how productive disagreements lead

to better outcomes, conflict not only brings us together, the lack of it, he says, just

plain makes us stupider.

Ian impacts some of the myths around difficult conversations, such as the idea they had to

be done in a strictly rational, unemotional way to be fruitful, and he offers ways to approach

conflict that'll make it more productive, especially your remembering, to prioritize the

relationship above all.

And out of the shows over, check out our show notes at a-wim.is slash conflict.

Alright Ian Leslie, welcome to the show.

Thank you Brett, Barry, good to be here.

So you got a book out called conflicted, how productive disagreements lead to better outcomes.

I'm curious, how did you take a deep dive into the nature of social conflict?

Well, you know, I think like a lot of things, we can blame Twitter for it.

My last book was about curiosity, and I was looking for, I guess, another aspect of human

nature that I thought hadn't been fully investigated, or not in a really interesting way.

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