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practical advice you can implement today. Hello and welcome to the big technology podcast, a show for cool-headed nuanced

conversations of the tech world and beyond.

Let me tell you, I'm pinching myself that we're actually about to have this conversation

because I think it's going to be the most fascinating

we've had on the podcast, bar none. And let me tell you why. So in 2017, I got a chance to

spend some time with Jan Lecun. And Jan was the head of Facebook AI research. Now you might

know the company as meta. He's the chief AI scientist there. And we spoke a lot

about how you can actually take the human mind and make it artificial, turn it into something that's an

AI. And I think that that's making a thinking machine is Jan's long-term goal. Then this summer,

I, you know, had some time off and decided that I was going to read a book I wanted to get around to for a long time. I was thinking

fast and slow by the Nobel Prize winning Professor Daniel Kahneman. And as I'm reading

this book, I start thinking, wow, like Professor Kahnan describes the way the mind works in so many interesting ways that I hadn't thought about and ways that you'd imagine Jan would have to think about if he wants to build a thinking machine.

And so why don't we just get the two of them together? Obviously, it was a pipe dream, right?

Anyway, about a month ago, I'm in the

same room as both of them by some stroke of luck. And I propose, you know, why don't we have this

conversation? So, of course, I go up to a professor connemon, we'll call him Danny for, you know,

this conversation and say, hey, have you ever spoken with Jan?

And it turns out that they've spoken many times. And, and this is discussions they've had in

...