Today we have George Bonanno in the podcast. Dr. Bonanno is Professor of Psychology, Chair

of the Department of Counseling and Clinical Psychology, and Director of the Lost Traum

in a Motion Lab Teachers College Columbia University. He's the author of the other side

of Sadness and the End of Trauma. George, so great to finally chat with you on the

Psychology podcast. It's great, so I'm very, very happy to be here. I'm happy to do you

invited me. Thank you. You know, we have a lot to talk about in this topic that you study

is extraordinarily germine to the moment that we're living. It's interesting because I think

that if I read your book correctly, you said you started writing it before the pandemic hit,

so you almost had that kind of add that extra chapter at the end about the pandemic. Is that

right? How did that come about? Yes, while I was working on the book and I planned to be in

Europe for sabbatical and touring around Europe and giving lectures and working on the book further,

so I started the book and I was going to do the bulk of it and then the pandemic hit and I had

the shuffle on home right quickly. So I thought, okay, this would probably, it would probably make

sense to include this whole experience in the book as it began to become clear that it was going

to be a long haul. So I began keeping a diary and that was a fortunate decision because then the

last chapter of the book is about the pandemic. Yeah, yeah, so it's good that you kept the diary,

right? Yep. Well, before we get into your seminal work on resilience and the way this idea

isn't your new book, let's go back a second because we both shared a mentor, Dromo Singer.

Yes, yes. So, you know, may he rest in peace? Let's talk about that work you did with him a

little bit and how did it lead to work and interest in resilience? Well, that's a very interesting

question. How do you go from daydreaming to resilience? Yeah, well, I didn't do daydreaming work

with Jerry. I worked on really personality and experimental, but there is a connection. I worked

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