Today, it's great to have Gary Heil on the podcast. Gary is an author, educator, lawyer,

consultant, and coach. He's the co-founder of the Center for Innovative Leadership,

where he continues to advise leaders in a wide range of industries and cultural issues,

and he has served on a number of public and private boards, including Jim Brie, Red Envelope,

and Front-Rage Solutions. He presently serves as the chairman of the board of Salt

Tech Metals. He's the co-author of a number of bestselling books, including leadership,

including leadership in the customer revolution, one-size-fits-all, Maslow Enmanagement, the

leaders' new clothes, revisiting the human side of enterprise, Douglas McGregor revisited,

and this is hard to get through. Douglas McGregor revisited, and shoes love not fear,

how the best leaders build cultures of engagement and innovation that unleash human potential.

Gary, it is so great having you on the psychology podcast.

Thanks, Scott. It's an honor to be here.

Can you start off by telling me and our audience here a little bit about yourself and your background?

As you said, I was a frustrated coach and navigated a polar icebreaker. I was a lawyer for a while,

did some trial work, and finally came to my senses and went into the lawyer protection program.

I'm presently in step 8 of recovery. About 35 years ago, I started working with businesses

that basically worked. I think that worked didn't have to be a four-letter word,

and there was so much human potential left on the cutting room floor that we could do something about it,

and I've spent most of my career working with leaders to try to understand what separates

great teams from the merely code ones.

I love that.

I want to double-click on your love book. Let's pivot around that for a moment when we talk about what separates good from great leaders.

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