From Internet Forums to Murder: The Disturbing Rise of the Zizians Cult

Change Agents with Andy Stumpf

IRONCLAD

Society & Culture

4.9 • 648 Ratings

🗓️ 6 August 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this week’s episode of Change Agents, Andy speaks with journalist Max Read about the evolution of rationalism and the emergence of the Zizians, a splinter group with radical beliefs. The conversation explores the origins of the group, the role of its central figure Ziz, and the intersection of technology, ideology, and identity. They also examine the dynamics of online communities, the influence of militant veganism within the group, and what the rise of the Zizians suggests about the broader rationalist movement and its place in Silicon Valley. To Visit Max’s substack: https://maxread.substack.com/ Change Agents is an IRONCLAD Original Sponsors: Firecracker Farm Use code IRONCLAD to get 15% off your first order at https://firecracker.farm/ AmmoSquared Visit https://ammosquared.com/ today for a special offer and keep yourself fully stocked. With over 100,000 members and thousands of 5-star ratings, Your readiness is their mission. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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0:31.3	They get involved in an altercation with their landlord. They haven't paid rent in a while,
0:35.1	and their landlord says, okay, it's then he tries to
0:38.8	evict them. They attack him with a samurai store. Apparently from behind. Yeah. So he walks,
0:44.7	he's like walking into his mobile home. One of them comes up and stabs him in the shoulder with
0:49.1	a samurai store. Again, he's an 80 year old guy. He's like a guy who owns a big piece of property.
0:54.2	He's 80 years old. He's got a guy who owns a big piece of property. He's 80-year-old.
0:54.8	He's got a shotgun.
0:56.1	He grabs it, turns around, and shoots.
1:06.5	Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back.
1:08.5	Hope you're ready for another episode of Change Agents,
1:10.9	an Ironclad original presented by Firecracker Farm. Now, let's dive in.
1:23.8	How did this particular group, the Zizzians, how did they hit your radar?
1:28.2	I mean, there's plenty of things to write about in the world.
1:30.5	Some of them are a little bit more bespoke than others, I'll say.
1:34.9	This one is, this one's kind of out there.
1:38.9	Yeah, I mean, this was, so it was the day of Donald Trump's inauguration.
1:44.5	There was a shooting right near the border in Vermont and a border patrol officer was killed.
1:52.9	And my, I mean, look, I'm online like everybody else.
1:56.6	And my first reaction beyond sort of like sadness at what was obviously a tragedy was the sense that this was just going to get locked into a set of political narratives that are impossible to execute from.
2:07.8	And already, like you saw it already, there were people already sort of taking sides, like preparing to kind of, you know, tabloidize it and turn it into whatever was going to best help their political
	...

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