Hey everybody, we have a great guest here. I'm so excited to have a chance to speak to my friend, Diana Butler Bass.

She is an author, she is a historian, and she's written a book that is very, very significant.

And it's called Freeing Jesus, Rediscovering Jesus as Friend, Teacher, Savior, Lord, Way, and Presence.

Hi Diana, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

Hi Marianne, it's wonderful to see you.

Thank you. You know, we're talking about transformation. Obviously we're the time of tremendous change on the planet.

Some things that are changing in a bad way and other things that are changing in a good way.

And it's very easy to get caught up in the conversation of that which is disintegrating.

And then it's so important that we make sure that we keep our minds and our hearts open to all the things that are transforming in a positive way.

And I see you as such an example of that. You have written 11 books on American religion, particularly Christianity.

And you are part of a transformative element within the Christian tradition, and particularly with this book more than any, on the topic of Jesus.

So you start the book, I think at the very beginning with a scene in which I think we're at the National Cathedral, and you heard the voice of Jesus, and he said, get me out of here.

Which is similar to an experience I once had that I'll tell you about it. But tell us what happened. You hear this voice.

You know it's his and as you feel in your heart, get me out of here. And basically your journey that followed from there is the journey of the book. So tell us about it.

That was probably the most unexpected thing. I think that when you actually hear God's voice, it's not usually something that you would expect to be said to you.

And so I was praying in a side chapel at the Washington National Cathedral, and I was wrestling God, where are you? I was feeling a bit lost.

And as I was doing that, all of a sudden I heard this voice that said, get me out of here. And I first thought it was someone talking to me, and I went back to my prayers, and then the voice came a second time, get me out of here.

And I looked up, and there's this magnificent icon of Jesus, painted by NC Wyeth above this altar in the Washington National Cathedral. And I just went, Jesus, is that you?

And then the voice came a third time, get me out of here. And I literally was completely freaked out. I did not know what to do. And I basically bolted out of the cathedral.

The only person I told when this happened was in 2013 was my husband Richard. And he has always referred to this incident as the time that Jesus asked you to spring him from the slammer.

So I wondered, what does that mean? Jesus wants out of the National Cathedral. And ever since then, I think I've come to understand it a lot better. And that really does wind into this book.

And what I really want to do is that, you know, people are leaving church. And essentially they're, they're trying to make a life with Jesus beyond the walls of conventional or institutional religion.

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