Frans de Waal - Defining Gender Through The Eyes Of A Primatologist
ManTalks Podcast
Connor Beaton
4.8 • 591 Ratings
🗓️ 3 April 2023
⏱️ 78 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Talking points: gender, gender equality, alpha males, alpha females, violence, culture, psychology
I’ve been following Frans’ work for a while, and have admired how dedicated he is to his work and to uncovering the complexity of primates. This was such an enjoyable and fascinating conversation!
This episode is a compelling look at just how complex and nuanced something like gender can be, from one of THE world’s top primatologists. With more and more pressure to outsource your opinions, your arguments, and your beliefs to the fastest talking pundit, it’s more important than ever to take a step back, breathe, and check the science.
Dr. Frans B. M. de Waal is a Dutch/American biologist and primatologist known for his work on the behavior and social intelligence of primates. His first book, Chimpanzee Politics (1982) compared the schmoozing and scheming of chimpanzees involved in power struggles with that of human politicians. Ever since, de Waal has drawn parallels between primate and human behavior, from peacemaking and morality to culture. His scientific work has been published in hundreds of technical articles in journals such as Science, Nature, Scientific American, and outlets specialized in animal behavior. His popular books — translated into twenty languages — have made him one of the world's most visible primatologists. His latest books are The Age of Empathy (2009), and The Bonobo and the Atheist (2013). Two recent edited volumes are The Primate Mind (2012) and Evolved Morality (2014).
De Waal is C. H. Candler Professor in the Psychology Department of Emory University and Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center, in Atlanta, Georgia. Since 2013, he is a Distinguished Professor (Universiteitshoogleraar) at Utrecht University. He has been elected to the (US) National Academy of Sciences, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the Royal Dutch Academy of Sciences. In 2007, he was selected by Time as one of The Worlds' 100 Most Influential People Today, and in 2011 by Discover as among 47 (all time) Great Minds of Science. Being editor-in-chief of the journal Behaviour, de Waal has stepped in the footsteps of Niko Tinbergen, one of the founders of ethology.
His latest research concerns empathy and cooperation, inequity aversion and social cognition in chimpanzees, bonobos, and other species. He and his students have pioneered studies on how behavior is culturally transmitted in the primates, whether elephants recognize themselves in mirrors, how primates react to unequal reward divisions, how well primates spontaneously cooperate, and whether bonobo orphans are as emotionally affected by their trauma as human orphans.
Connect with Frans:
-Book: Different: Gender Through The Eyes Of A Primatologist: https://amzn.to/3K4MvLA
-TED Talk: Moral Behavior In Animals: https://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_moral_behavior_in_animals
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | All right, team, welcome to another episode. I am very excited to announce today's guest. I have been |
| 0:18.1 | curious about his work for a very long time, and I've been wanting to speak with his work for a very long time and I've been wanting to speak |
| 0:22.2 | with this individual for a very long time. And he has done some phenomenal work. He is honestly |
| 0:27.1 | one of the top leaders within his field. And while it's not necessarily a field that I know |
| 0:32.7 | much about, and it might not be a field that you know much about, it certainly pertains to our |
| 0:37.0 | everyday life and |
| 0:38.3 | maps over on our psychology, our lives, and pretty much every aspect of who we are. So joining |
| 0:45.2 | me today is Franz de Wall. And Friends is a Dutch primatologist and ethologist. He is the Charles Howard Handler, professor of primate behavior |
| 0:57.4 | and the Department of Psychology at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, director of the Living |
| 1:02.8 | Links Center in the Yerks National Primate Research Center at Emory, an author of numerous books, |
| 1:10.1 | including chimpanzee politics in 1982, |
| 1:13.2 | Our Inner Ape, 2005, Mama's Last Hug, Animal Emotions, and What They Teach Us About |
| 1:19.1 | Ourselves from 2019, and his most recent book, which we actually talk about today, |
| 1:24.4 | and the reason why I wanted to have him on the show, called Different through the eyes of a primatologist. So friends, Duol, and myself get into a |
| 1:34.1 | conversation. I've really put on my curiosity hat for this convo to talk about what can we learn |
| 1:41.0 | about gender, about biology, about, you know, sex, culture, et cetera, about |
| 1:46.6 | ourselves by researching primates, by understanding how gender shows up through primate culture |
| 1:55.0 | and what we can learn potentially about ourselves as human beings? |
| 1:59.6 | So this was a really fascinating for me, at least, |
| 2:02.1 | conversation. I hope that you dig in and listen to the end because we have some interesting |
| 2:07.8 | conversations about many different aspects of primate culture, but also human culture. We |
| 2:13.8 | touch on the difference between sex and gender, you know, biological sex versus |
... |
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