Fragile Electric Grids: Did Renewables Cause the Blackout in Spain? with Pedro Prieto
The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
Nate Hagens
4.8 • 552 Ratings
🗓️ 7 May 2025
⏱️ 57 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Last week, Europe experienced its worst blackout in living memory, which plunged tens of millions of people across Spain and Portugal into darkness for up to 18 hours. Life screeched to a halt, with trains, traffic lights, ATMs, phone connections, and internet access failing. In the aftermath, many important questions have arisen, including: what caused such a widespread grid failure, and how can Europe and other nations prepare for the next time an event like this happens?
In today's episode, Nate is joined by Pedro Prieto to discuss the recent blackout in the Iberian Peninsula, exploring its causes, impacts, and the role of renewable energy in the stability of the electric grid. Prieto highlights the societal and infrastructural challenges that his home country faced, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach to energy management, as well as the interconnectedness of energy systems and societal resilience. The discussion delves into the complexities of energy demand and supply, the importance of backup systems, and the future of renewable energy in Spain.
Are developed countries more vulnerable to blackouts than those that are still developing? How does renewable energy act as a double-edged sword, adding stability or fragility to energy infrastructure, depending on how it's used? How might developed countries learn lessons from this widespread blackout, including policy changes or reducing energy dependence in the face of future energy challenges?
(Conversation recorded on May 1st, 2025)
About Pedro Prieto:
Pedro is the vice president of the Asociación para el Estudio de los Recursos Energéticos (AEREN). AEREN is an open space for debate and communications on energy issues and their role in demography, development, economy and ecology. Pedro was a member of the board at ASPO International with AEREN representing ASPO in Spain. Since 2004, Pedro has led several solar photovoltaic projects in Spain, a leading world country in solar PV penetration. Pedro co-authored Spain's Photovoltaic Revolution. The Energy Return on Investment, that challenged the conventional energy boundaries considered up to the moment for calculations.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | It was a complete blackout. |
| 0:02.0 | Close to 60 million people were out of service. |
| 0:05.0 | Hospitals, they had to stop operations and supermarkets, they cannot serve, they cannot |
| 0:10.3 | count, they cannot invoice. |
| 0:12.0 | I mean, the telecom network is very important, but the traffic was so heavy when the people |
| 0:16.2 | were blackout. |
| 0:17.5 | We could not communicate with each other. |
| 0:19.6 | We were very badly prepared because we are |
| 0:21.5 | very confident that our network will never stop. People do not realize that it may happen so |
| 0:27.3 | fast. You're listening to the great simplification. I'm Nate Hagen's. On this show, we |
| 0:35.9 | describe how energy, the economy, the environment, and human behavior all fit together and what it might mean for our future. |
| 0:43.9 | By sharing insights from global thinkers, we hope to inform and inspire more humans to play emergent roles in the coming great simplification. |
| 0:57.6 | Join emergent roles in the coming great simplification. Joining me today is my friend Pedro Prieto from Madrid, Spain, to discuss the power outage in the |
| 1:07.5 | Iberian Peninsula that happened on April 29th. |
| 1:11.6 | Pedro is the vice president of the Association for the Study of Energy Resources, which is |
| 1:17.0 | an open space for debate and communications on energy issues and their role in demography, |
| 1:22.6 | development, economy, and ecology. Since 2004, Pedro has led several solar voltaic projects in Spain, |
| 1:34.0 | as well as written numerous articles, co-authored a book with Charlie Hall called Spain's |
| 1:42.6 | Photovoltaic Revolution, the energy return on investment, |
| 1:45.9 | that challenged the conventional boundaries of energy analysis that are used in systemic |
| 1:54.2 | calculations. |
| 1:55.9 | Pedro has been a friend of mine for 20 years, and I called him up to see if he could share what |
... |
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