Welcome to the podcast Think Bivocally, conversations on faith and culture.

I'm your host Sean McDowell, professor of Christian apologetics at Taubet School of Theology

Biola University.

And I'm your co-host, Scott Ray,

he even a faculty and professor of Christian ethics,

also at Talbot School of Theology at Biola University.

Today we have a guest that many in our audience will recognize right away.

He's the president of the Barna Research Group.

David Kinnaman is the author of a number of really important and influential cultural books such as

unchristian you lost me good faith and the most recent book we're going to talk

about today faith for exiles but David loves b. He is on our board and actually David you and I went to

school at the same time and lived on the same floor. So it's cool to have that history together

and I'm just thrilled about your recent book that we get to talk about today.

So thanks for coming on.

Yeah, thanks Sean. I absolutely remember being on the floor with you and this energetic basketball playing, you know, sort of apologist in training and with Dr.

Ray I still need to call you Dr. Ray because...

No, you don't.

You were you were so kind to go to lunch and dinner and different things when I was a student

of Biola.

So now I'm grateful to count you both as friends in addition to our background as biola people back in the day.

Your recent book, Faith for Exiles, of course is just The title again is Faith for Exiles. Can you explain to us what you mean by an exile, why you title it this way, and kind of why you wrote this book at this moment? What is your research showing?

Yeah, so I've spent the last 12 years

...