We're back. This is episode two of Red Lines, the new podcast from BBC Northern Ireland's

politics team. I'm Mark Carruthers, John Campbell, and Mark Devenport are here again too.

We'll have a distinctly Caledonian flavour to things in just a moment. But first of all,

John, you introduced everyone to the idea of big footing last week. Today, let's discuss

empty chairing.

Yeah, well, that's basically when you invite somebody on your program.

They don't want to appear, so you have to basically decide what you're going to do about it.

Which I suppose is more of an issue for you on your program, The View, rather than me.

I see the View was back this week as well, wasn't it?

Yes, the View was back, and we didn't have any empty chairs. We got all five parties, but it is a big challenge.

You had a remarkable new VR set though, didn't you, for your guests?

Did we have the Starship Enterprise?

I thought it was like something out of the Jetsons.

I was expecting George. In a good way or in a bad way?

I was expecting George Jetson to come through with a Tref Martinez in any moment. you should watch out. This remarkable kind of retro futuristic set.

Yes. Overlooking. It's a bird's eye view of Belfast at night, which

we're kind of very proud of

actually. I think it looks quite smart.

We're getting new chairs as well. Anyway, empty chairs.

That's a whole other story.

Empty chairing or empty podiuming.

Yes, we had the empty podium

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