Welcome to the Global Phenomenon, Surviving the Survivor, where we bring you the best guests in all of true crime.

Here's your host, Emmy Award-winning journalist Joel Waldman.

What's up, FTS Nation, and welcome to an afternoon episode of Surviving the Survivor,

the podcast that promises to bring you the very best guess in all of true crime and today as every other day

but especially today that is no tagline that is a reality and you're about to find

out why this is one of the better

panels that we have assembled and today talking about another serious crime

but as you know we always try to infuse a little humor into the macabre nature of the

subject matter but the search for two Oklahoma or actually Kansas moms who are murdered in Oklahoma came to a sad and tragic

ending the arrest of four people in the remote part of the panhandle

Oklahoma led to the discovery of two bodies confirmed to be

those of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly those are the two Hugh-Giton

Kansas mothers who were discovered.

Grandma Tiffany Adams, Tad Column, and Cole and Court Twombly

were arraigned in criminal court last week.

And guess what? Now there is a fifth suspect in custody

there was some talk about a guy named Paul Grice we will get to him in a moment but

please to introduce some new best guest today and they are superb ones.

Dave Walker, top right, the man who has a shirt that says retired and he earned it

36 years as a patrol officer narcotic investigation supervisor

burglary detective robbery detective and a homicide detective and Tulsa, Oklahoma man of the year back in 2018.

You know him from the show First 48.

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