Pastor Mark Driscoll here, welcoming you to the podcast. I've been teaching the Bible for more than 30 years,

and real faith is an extraordinary ministry with a great team. It's not a big team, but they're making a big difference at a big impact. And we'd love you to preferably consider partnering with us, especially with a one-time or ongoing recurring gift.

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And so in advance, thank you for your partnership.

Yeah?

Sure.

Okay.

Mark and Grace Driscollier, welcome back to the Real Marriage podcast.

We're doing a short series on Leave and Cleave.

And if you go to real faith.com, there's also full sermons and a full workbook.

It's a 21-day journey to help couples figure out how to have a healthy family system

and have that conversation with themselves and their extended family.

And so the concept of leaving cleave comes from Genesis 224 in the King James version.

And I'm going to, we're going to talk about enmeshment today.

So I'm going to sketch it out.

I'm a verbal processor and visual. And then I want to talk to you about

enmeshment. So here's kind of how I see it. There's a tension within each person to be an individual and to be

part of a group. We don't want to be completely alone, but we don't want to be

controlled by other people. And so on one side, we'll call a cutoff. And this comes from Bowen's

...