Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Radical Cander podcast. I'm Kim Scott, co-founder of Radical Cander,

and author of Radical Cander and Just Work. I'm Jason Rosoff, CEO and co-founder of Radical Cander.

And I'm Amy Sandler, your host for the Radical Cander podcast. Showing compassion is real work. And like all real work,

it's rewarding and it's also taxing. In general, we tend to undervalue the emotional labor of being the boss.

But Kim, as you've often said, this emotional labor is not just part of the job. It's actually the key to being a good boss.

So today we're going to discuss emotional labor through the lens of a scenario. It was sent

into us by one of our listeners looking for guidance. And this person writes in, they say,

first, I appreciate all the concepts around radical candor, try hard to use them with my team.

And this person's a proponent

for others to pick up the skills. So they were thanking us, so thank you. And now for some advice,

I am VP of new product development with a team of 450. Quote, I'm working on succession planning

with two individuals, both of whom are senior directors

on my staff. I'm able to practice radical candor with one of them. This person is really

willing to listen and course correct and wants me to be even harder on them in order to try to

improve. They continue writing, I try to practice the same principles with the other person. In two

instances when I've challenged directly, with lots of caring personally, this person has broken

down and cried. This disarms me and I back off and now really dread going back at it again.

It is exhausting. I owe it to them to give them the feedback. I truly want them

to improve and be in a position to move into my role, but they're taking steps backwards in their

behavior. So how do I navigate this? Thanks again for all the great work your team does for many.

All right. So here's, I'm going to jump in and say what I think,

unless Jason are going to you. Okay. I'm jumping right in. So I would say the problem here is not

...