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Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

"Facebook Whistleblower" Frances Haugen

Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Josh Szeps

Comedy Interviews, Education, Society & Culture, Comedy, Self-improvement

4.5905 Ratings

🗓️ 28 April 2025

⏱️ 74 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What’s social media doing to us, and how would you fix it?

Mark Zuckerberg has been a busy boy on the witness stand in Washington DC lately. In one of the most consequential antitrust cases in tech history, Meta is being sued by the U.S. government for allegedly maintaining a monopoly. It could reshape the future of social media, privacy regulation, and Big Tech.

But in an ideal world, how would you reform social media? How might we prevent it from deranging us?

Frances Haugen worked at Google and Facebook as a product manager and data engineer. She helped build algorithms that tweaked the ranking of search results. Then she made global news as a whistleblower, collaborating with the Wall Street Journal on bombshell stories about Facebook's misdeeds. She appeared on 60 Minutes and testified before Congress.

Frances and Josh discuss the problems with social media and what practical steps she recommends to reform the industry... and save civilisation.

Watch this conversation on YouTube. And you’re missing out on our best ad-free content if you haven’t popped over to the Uncomfy Convos Substack page.

http://twitter.com/joshzepps

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http://tiktok.com/@uncomfyconversations

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Giday, humans. Welcome to safe space for dangerous ideas. Here's a dangerous idea for you.

0:08.4

All of the negative effects that you know accrue to you from social media use, the algorithms

0:16.5

that reinforce what you want to believe and demonize the things that you don't want to believe,

0:22.0

the echo chambers that keep you liking and commenting and scrolling and clicking and sharing

0:27.0

and arguing, the recommendations that tailored just for an automaton like you to ingest

0:34.2

into your algorithmic robot brain, the self-judgment that comes from overuse of social

0:40.6

media, the anxiety, the bullying, the preying of perverts on underage users, that whole panoply,

0:47.8

that universe, that mosaic of negative consequences that constitute the vast psychological

0:53.7

experiment that is social media use

0:56.4

in the 21st century, all those downsides may not be the regrettable side effects of the

1:04.3

core product of connecting people. Those negative effects may actually be part of the core product, fundamental to its

1:13.8

addictiveness, fundamental to its business model, and the people who run those social media

1:19.0

companies know it.

1:21.7

That is basically the conclusion to which today's guest came when she left Facebook and

1:26.8

became a whistleblower.

1:28.0

She collaborated with the Wall Street Journal a few years ago on a bombshell series of articles,

1:32.8

unveiling what Facebook knows about what it could do to prevent user harm and what it is failing to do.

1:40.5

Mark Zuckerberg has been a busy little bunny on the witness stand in Washington, D.C. lately.

1:46.4

You may have heard amid all of the Trump chaos that there is a big court case going on.

1:50.9

The U.S. government is suing meta under antitrust for allegedly maintaining a monopoly.

1:57.1

It could reshape the future of social media, depending on which way the case goes.

2:01.1

It's one of the most consequential antitrust cases in tech history.

...

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