You get predictable consequences when you start encouraging everybody to think about themselves as their categories.

I don't think it's a wise, a clever place to start going, so I just wish we'd shut the fuck up about it a little bit and get on with our lives and focus on the big important stuff.

Like the fact that we're still spewing massive amounts of carbon by burning fossil fuels,

and like the west coast of the United States is on fire, and Australia was on fire last summer.

And whatever you, even if you're a climate skeptic or whatever, we know with absolute certainty,

we don't know the exact details, but we know with absolute certainty that the 21st century

is going to get a lot more expensive and a lot more annoying and there'll be a lot more complicated movements of people

and a lot more radical politics and a lot more far right movements as a result of the kinds of

droughts and disruptions and changes to the weather system can we just like talk about that i want to

be talking about you know how to live on this planet and

get along and manage our technology and our nuclear weapons and our fossil fuels in ways that

don't just cause our grandchildren enormous pains in the arces. That's what I want to be talking

about. Welcome to the unspeakable podcast. I'm your host, Megan Dowm. My guest this week is Australian

television and radio host and podcaster Josh Zepts. Josh's new podcast, Uncomfortable Conversations,

is kind of like this one. He interviews a range of people about a range of topics that, as he's put it,

seek to tease out things that are uncomfortable for us to grasp,

for society to face up to, or for listeners to face up to, considering where they sit politically,

or because it may conflict with what their tribe represents.

There are quite a few of us doing that these days, but Josh does it exceptionally well, I think both

because and despite of his background in traditional broadcasting. The founding host of the

award-winning HuffPost Live, where he managed to be a celebrity interviewer who was also just

really obviously smart, Josh was also the host of the live comedy talk show podcast, We the People Live,

...