Now, the Eurovision Song Contest is in its biggest ever crisis, and that's because multiple

warcasters across member states have withdrawn because of the inclusion of Israel, a state which

has and is committing genocide against the Palestinian people.

This is big.

The likes of Spain, Ireland, we'll talk about them, other European

nations who have said that because Israel is being included once again after committing a

live-stream genocide, they are pulling the plug. Now, that puts massive pressure on other countries and we'll see, in fact, we'll talk about

this, other countries may soon follow suit. And in those countries which continue to participate,

there's going to be massive up for about this continued participation. Now, we've got a lot

to talk about here, why this is so important. You know,

some will go, ooh, so big camp frothy music thing. Why does it matter? It matters a lot.

We'll talk about that. As well as the usual argument you hear against this and what happens next.

Now, there's no better person to speak to about this than Samir Escander, who was a Palestinian-Irish artist,

organised a human rights activist. He's with the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement. We'll talk about that. It's a hugely important movement modeled on the anti-apartheid movement, which obviously was pivotal in overthrowing the apartheid regime in South Africa. Sam Mia, it's great to speak to you. How you did?

I'm okay.

Hi, Owen.

Great to speak to, as always.

I just want to start, actually, with first principles, because, you know, some people might go, you know, might be confused about this.

They might go, well, isn't it just a music festival?

I saw Fraser Nelson, who is a British journalist,

who said, your vision is about the people, not about governments, basically saying, why is

politics involved in all of this? What's the response to that? That's the main argument you hear

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