Escalation, Episode Six: Nothing Else Matters

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 10 June 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Today, it’s Episode Six of Escalation, our latest narrative series co-hosted by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina. Throughout the show, Nastya and Tyler trace the history of U.S.-Ukrainian relations from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present. You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series, on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode Six picks up the thread in 2019, when the relationship between the United States and Ukraine faces one of its biggest tests during a phone call between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We then take listeners into the halls of Congress to follow the Ukrainian Cultural Forces as they struggle to generate support for the war on the eve of the 2024 presidential election, in part due to the fallout of that infamous phone call.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull,
0:26.9	and The Aftermath.
0:31.4	It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Tyler McBrion, managing editor of Lawfare.
0:36.4	This afternoon, we're continuing to bring you a little something extra on top of our daily
0:40.2	Lawfare podcast episodes.
0:42.3	Today, it's episode six of Escalation, our latest narrative series that I co-hosted
0:47.0	with Lawfare's Ukraine Fellow and Estacia Lapitna.
0:50.2	Throughout the show, Nasty and I traced the history of U.S. Ukrainian relations
0:53.6	from the time of Ukrainian independence through the present.
0:57.0	You can listen to Escalation in its entirety, as well as our other narrative series on our Lawfare Presents channel, wherever you get your podcasts.
1:04.5	Episode 6 picks up the threat in 2019, when the relationship between the U.S. and Ukraine faces one of its biggest tests during a phone call between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelensky.
1:14.8	We then take listeners into the halls of Congress to follow the Ukrainian cultural forces as they struggle to generate support for the war on the eve of the 2024 presidential election, in part due to the fallout of that infamous phone call.
1:27.9	This is Escalation, episode 6. Nothing else matters.
1:34.3	Escalation is presented by Delete Me, the industry leader in personal data removal.
1:41.0	Delete Me is trusted by 20% of the Fortune 500 and by federal state and county courts across the United States.
1:49.4	For more information on Delete Me and its services for individuals and businesses, go to join deleteme.com slash escalation.
2:02.8	Previously on Es escalation. Previously on escalation.
2:05.3	We want to reset our relationship.
2:09.3	Let's do it together.
	...

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