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I'd like to ask a little bit about this. One exactly was America great.

In Europe, from your perspective, was it back in the 19th century when we had slavery? I guess, clearly not.

Was it great when women didn't have the right to vote? I assume not.

Was it when we had a system essentially of America apartheid? I assume not.

Hello, welcome to Mr. Clancho on the Vox Media podcast network.

You all know that one of my obsessions of light has been whether America still is a democracy, whether it has been, whether it is one, whether it should be one.

But in particular, how some of the distortions in the system ranging from the electoral college to the way geography becomes representation, to gerrymandering to the filibuster, how they're ending up stacking the political deck, how they're making outcomes, also legitimate,

and how increasingly there is a divide between a democratic party that wants a more small-d democratic America, and a Republican party that sees more democracy as a threat to its interests.

And that, to me, is a pretty dangerous space. Someone whose work I've been interested in in this space is Eric Holders.

Eric Holder, of course, was the Attorney General under President Barack Obama, the first African-American Attorney General, since leaving the White House, he has founded and shares the National Democratic Redistricting Committee.

And that's become not just the focus of his political work, but also the focus of much of President Obama's post-Presidential political work.

He actually recently merged organizing for America into this project.

And I think the reason for it is a growing sense that if you don't get some of the fundamental questions of elections right and representation right, then all the other policy you care about, climate change, health care, economy, whatever it is, it doesn't work out.

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