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If Gmail were to get hacked and everybody's information is vulnerable and you could just troll all the accounts and pull the information out, Google would I 100% believe shut down Gmail for a day and be like, listen, you all have to just wait it out while we fix this bug.

Yet if we had the same thing happening with actual violence, not your data, but actual violence, there is no way to shut it down.

Hello, welcome to this adventure on the Box Media Podcast Network. My guest today is Neil Dash, who is a technologist, he's a CEO of Glitch, he is the host of the excellent podcast function.

I really like the concept of this podcast. He basically explores a particular wrinkle in tech, interested in unspool, how those design decisions, or how that piece of technology is affecting other things in the culture.

It's a good sort of starting narrow and going wide approach to technology. He's a very sharp guy. I've been reading his essays online for years, and I got a chance to talk to him for the show.

And he had recently written this really great piece about 12 things everybody should know about technology, and it's a really, really perceptive way of thinking about how technology is actually changing us, how it's changing the world, and how it's being designed.

I think it was a good, kind of, corrective to some overly negative takes about what is going on in Silicon Valley, but it's also a really good jumping off point to try to think more realistically than we have, certainly for most of the industry's development about why, why things seem to be going so wrong lately.

So trying to get a better model of how things actually work is one of the great joys of the show. And I think in the show, a Neil really offers one as always you can email me as a client show at box.com. Here is a Neil Dash.

A Neil Dash, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I wanted to start with something that you wrote actually a few years ago. Why should we stop talking about the technology industry as a thing?

You know, I think it's it's not a meaningful phrasing, right? If we said every industry that uses electricity is part of you know, every company uses electricity is part of the electricity industry, it wouldn't make any sense.

It's like when something's that pervasive, it's not a standalone, you know, realm. And especially when like if you say what are cup what do companies in the tech industry do? Well, they help you.

Hello, they help you. Hello, cab and they'll deliver soup to you. And they will also help you choose a babysitter and do word processing, right? Like it's it's an incoherent and they'll put a speaker in your living room to spy on you, right?

Like there's just like those can't possibly all be the same industry. What's funny to me is that when we talk about the tech industry, we don't tend to mean space X.

Right. Right. Which like I think it's like a tech.

In a traditional understanding of tech like that's tech. Yeah, or the cutting edge of like genetics or something, right? And like that stuff is no, that's not tech. What we mean is like a phone.

This seems like a rare moment of conversions for you and Peter teal.

Yeah, there's I still wouldn't kind of necessarily isn't your not even willing to know.

Yeah, it's it's not a lot fair enough. All right, so I wanted to structure some of you around a piece who wrote that I thought was super interesting back in April maybe wasn't called 12 things that everybody should know about technology.

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