Welcome to Off Message. I'm Isaac Gaubert.

Today's guest, Eric Holder, the former Attorney General and now the chair of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee.

It's the big democratic effort to try to make a difference in gerrymandering, which they argue is a big part of the reason why they're in such bad shape in the House and state legislatures around the country.

To be clear, they'd probably be in bad shape anyway, but this does seem to make it worse.

One of the things that struck me about holders is transformation from the restrained lawman into the act of political presence on the campaign trail.

There was always something clearly not so beneath the surface with him that seemed as if he

was holding it in. I remember one particular committee hearing where he sat in his chair behind

that wooden table you always see and just got to the point where he couldn't take it anymore

and he just started ripping into all the Republican members who were going after.

...political point-making.

And that is the kind of thing that, you know, you and your side, I guess, have the ability to do, if that's what you want to do.

It is the thing that, I think, turns people off about Washington.

While we have very serious problems, we're still involved in this political gamesmanship.

Well, Mr. Attorney General... involved in this political gamesmanship. When we sat down to record in the conference room in a church in Richmond, Virginia,

where he'd just been going on to the congregation about the Orange Man,

he admitted to me it's a change and one that he still is getting used to himself.

He's still not the most natural presence on the campaign trail.

But though he was out there in Virginia for the Democratic statewide ticket, his main job

politically is this new group, and it's raising money, getting attention, and being the connection

to Barack Obama, who has identified this group as the main mission politically for him of his

post-presidency.

You can check out my article up on the

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