The following podcast contains advertising.

To access an ad-free version of the LawFair podcast,

become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash law fair.

That's patreon.com slash law fair.

Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings,

rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath.

And it's certainly the Swedish perspective that Russia is a long-term threat,

and we cannot disarm and take down our guard even when this war is over.

And that's why it's doubly important to have Ukraine within NATO to prevent this from ever happening again.

And there is unanimity around that that Ukraine belongs in NATO,

and I will only contribute to European security and transatlantic security.

I'm Benjamin Wittes, and this is the LawFair podcast July 14, 2023.

The NATO Summit in Vilnius, Lithuania just wrapped up,

and the big news is that Sweden is in, and Ukraine is not.

Joining me in the virtual jungle studio from Warsaw is Eric Atomsen of the Atlantic Council

and the Swedish Defense Association.

He is a Swedish Defense Policy Analyst who observed the NATO Summit

and joined me to discuss the two big things that happened.

The Swedish resolution of the dispute with Turkey that impeded Swedish NATO accession until now

and the frustrating failure of NATO to set a path for Ukrainian NATO membership.

We talked about the dispute between Sweden and Turkey and the nuanced manner in which it was resolved.

We talked about whether the Ukrainians are being too demanding and should be more grateful for Western support.

...