Episode 856: Gordon Laws, Friend to Martin Family Who Lost Their Transgender Son Levi to Suicide

Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Richard Ostler

Religion & Spirituality

4.7 • 855 Ratings

🗓️ 12 January 2026

⏱️ 50 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

** This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My friend Gordon Laws joins us to talk about supporting Dave and Kimi Martin when they lost their transgender son Levi to suicide in Dec 2022. Gordon talks about Levi—a bright, capable, curious young man—and the difficult journey he walked having Swyer Syndrome and being transgender. Gordon talks about the valiant efforts of Dave and Kimi to support their son. Gordon talks about the immediate days after Levi died and his role to minister to the Martin family—including writing his obituary and eulogy. Gordon talks about ministering principles to support others in their time of crisis/need—principles that help us all do better. Gordon talks about how the Savior ministers to those on the margins and invites us to better understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Gordon for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Levi’s Eulogy: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqI2JAKpZWJ/ Sanctuary Documentary: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Levi’s Obituary: https://www.d-mfh.com/obituary/Levi-Martin Episode 631 (David and Kimi Martin): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son Gordon's Irrentum Article (fictional story of Levi's premortal interview with God): https://irreantum.associationmormonletters.org/_20-1-i-can-take-or-leave-it/

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello, welcome listeners to another episode of Listen, Learn, and Love, hosted by Richard Osler.
0:09.6	This is the first episode of recording in 2026.
0:13.8	Thanks for listening.
0:15.7	My guest on today's podcast, joining us from his home in Halifax, Massachusetts via Zoom, is my friend, Gordon Laws.
0:23.4	Welcome to the podcast, Gordon.
0:25.8	Thank you.
0:27.1	Appreciate being here.
0:29.2	We have talked about Dave and Kimmy, Martin, and their son Levi, who died by suicide.
0:37.3	In prior podcasts, episode 631, Dave and Kimmy, is that how I pronounce her name, Gordon?
0:45.1	Kimi.
0:46.1	It's kind of like you say Kiwi, but with an M.
0:49.7	She's told me that before, and I always missed that.
0:51.8	So thank you for keeping her name correct. Levi died in
0:56.7	December of 2022, a transgender youth, and it just deeply moved me and our listeners. And I felt
1:06.5	impressed to continue to talk about Levi when I talk about supporting LGBTQ people and reference him and his
1:13.0	story and what we can do better. And one of the people that came through that I became aware of
1:20.0	during that time of Levi's passing was Gordon Laws. And I believe he helped write the obituary and
1:26.2	delivered the eulogy and is connected with the Martin family through common roots in the LDS church.
1:32.3	And I just thought, here's Gordon that seems to be a very close family friend that's very proximate to Levi and what was going on there and wrote a wonderful eulogy.
1:44.1	And I just felt impressed as part of this journey to keep Levi's story alive.
1:50.4	Dave and Kimi are doing such a great job, but I thought I'd get Gordon on the podcast to share
1:56.6	his thoughts about the Martin family, about Levi, anything else he wants to talk about, how to support
	...

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