Let's think about the facts. This trial is going to be a major war, a community war, okay?

The team that I'm going up against, they're running around the track, they're working out, they're sharpening their spikes.

There's no one who's on their team. Me? I don't even tell a coach. We don't even know where the game's going to be or what the fuck's going on.

When I think it was a court in trial, I have one shot more on opportunity to be not guilty.

Are I doing a prison in death row?

Yes, that's the reality of it.

We have busted alibis, we have caught people in lies.

This is just insane because everybody's pointing the finger at somebody else.

You just don't hear every day walking in somebody's house or going to take the plastic out and pop somebody.

So he could get the execution date pretty much any day?

Yeah, there's no impediments.

This is Cousins by Blood.

Episode 8. The jail house tapes.

By this point in the podcast, you've heard the statements from Amy Betcher, Ivan, Amy Betcher's stepdad, Mr. Kramer, Tawny, Ivan's mom, Sylvia, and the bit from Ivan's aunt Penny.

Remember, she was also at the early morning eye-hop meeting.

You've heard Sylvie's encounters with Carlos and Anthony and finding out about Frank, James and Amy Kitchens, mysterious roommate.

So at this point in our story, Ivan has been arrested.

He was arrested by Dallas PD on November 8, 2000.

And a few days after the arrest, Ivan's mom started recording the phone calls from jail to her and Ivan's aunt Penny.

As the goal of this podcast is to get to the truth of what really happened on November 3rd and 4th of 2000.

And find out if Ivan really did kill his cousin James and Amy Kitchens, or if he didn't do it, who did?

And how and why did they set up Ivan?

...