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We have a jam-packed episode for you today. I had the

pleasure of speaking with Jamel Bowie of the New York Times, the journalist and

commentator at the New York Times, formerly of Slate.com, their senior political

correspondent, formerly of the Daily Beast.com, formerly of the nation.

We had a fascinating conversation. It was only supposed to last about 15-20 minutes, but it ended up

going for her about 45 minutes. So that conversation will be throughout

today's episode. Also, I absolutely have to speak about what's happening in South Africa, the xenophobic

attacks that are taking place and how those attacks are eerily analogous to

what's happening with well well, quite frankly, black nativism here in the United States.

So we'll speak about that, but first, as always, I like to thank each and every one of my patrons

for making this show possible without you.

It is not doable. That said, go to W.W.

Patreon.com for slash the BPD show and become a patron now, Jamel Bowie.

Jameel, Bowie. Jameel, thanks so much for joining me.

Thank you for having me.

Your most recent piece in the New York Times in regards to the conversation about republic

versus a democracy and how the Republican Party kind of uses that as a quip or as a cliche and this is what you say you said the point of the

slogan isn't to describe who we are but to claim and co-op the founding for

right-wing politics to naturalize political inequality and make it the proper order of things.

...