Hi, I'm Jonathan Lehman.

I don't think people appreciate how much work goes into these things.

Well, Alex Duke does a lot of job, a lot of work preparing for the job.

What is this they're listening to?

A pastor's talk.

And I'm Jonathan Lehman.

And I'm Mark Devere.

And welcome to this episode.

Nine Marks exists to equip church leaders of the biblical vision and practical resources for building healthy churches learn more.

And we hope you appreciate how much work goes on to these conversations.

At nine marks.org.

Yeah.

Where you can hear all of them.

A lot of work goes into that website too.

Sure does. I'm grateful for the people who do it. Mark, on these conversations, we've had a conversation on pastoral calling before.

Yeah. But it's such an important topic. We get to ask about it all the time. We do. And I wanted

to have another one with a real live specimen. Well, whoa, whoa, what do you think you and I are? Pastors. Yeah, we were both called.

But a brother who has exemplified it, I think, in wonderful ways, who could add to our own experience.

Brad Wheeler.

University of Baptist Church, Fayetteville, Arkansas.

Well, once upon a time he works for Goldman Sachs?

Merrill Lynch.

...