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Surveillance as we conceive it is follow that car. There's a person follow him.

Surveillance today is we know some things. Let's go backwards in time because we

have already surveilled everybody and see what we could learn. Now we can

argue their enormous values in terrorism. You can argue that there's lots of

very bad values but it's fundamentally different. It's not just this more of it but

more of it is making a change in how it works. I'm Benjamin Wittis and this is

the law fair podcast. That was internet security guru Bruce Schneer speaking

this week at a remarkable event at the Berkman Center for the internet and

society at Harvard University an event at which I also spoke. It was one of the

best public conversations I've been involved in since the whole NSA scandal

started. It was moderated by Harvard internet law scholar Jonathan Zittrain at

an included Yohai Benchler also of Harvard Schneer and Abel Aokobi senior legal

director for human rights at Yahoo. It also to everyone's surprise turn out to

include Tim Berners-Lee who invented a little thing called the World Wide Web and

spoke up with some surprising remarks from the audience. The event was long so

I've had to trim it here and there but I've left it mostly intact because in a way

that few conversations do it really got down to some of the deep philosophical

questions that lie beneath the whole NSA discussion. Enjoy it. It's the law fair

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