When you're running a third party, what you're doing is fighting to establish and maintain a ballot line.

In terms of a party, we do need a labor party. We do need a socialist party. And I would argue that NYCDSA is by far the most advanced along in that process.

They're using the Democratic Party ballot line, but they exercise more

organizational power, more discipline over their organizational practices and elected officials

at the city and state and now federal level than any political

party in this country.

That's confusing then.

So two things are happening that I hear you saying right there.

One I say, well, I hear you saying, well, we can't operate party systems as they operate

in other countries.

That's fine.

I don't know.

It may or may not be, it likely is more advantageous to do with the ways that other countries do.

But that's not the standard for the Democrats, with which all of these candidates are running to be.

And by your own description just now, the DSA you're saying is sort of creating a facsimile of that by using the ballot line.

I think that NYCDSA is acting more like a political party than any other organization of this country, including the Democratic Party.

Okay. So you have the NYC DSA behaving in that way. The question is, why is it so unthinkable

that a similar organizing can be done completely outside of the Democratic Party and or while someone like the NYC DSA put their their efforts behind people like Andre Easton, who I believe is in the DSA as well individually.

Or no, he's PSL, I think, actually.

But people who are ideologically

aligned but outside of the Democratic Party yeah I mean I think the question should be why

why aren't any of these other socialist organizations able to like win very much because NYCDSA has

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