Welcome to this week's episode of Startups for the rest of us. Thanks again for joining me this week.

This is the show where we look at ambitious yet sane approaches to building startups.

It's not the Silicon Valley approach, raising buckets of money, not having any customers.

It can be bootstrapped or mostly bootstrapped, but these are capital-efficient businesses that may not change the entire

world, but they're likely to change our little corner of it. I'm your host, Rob Walling,

and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Dan Norris. This was such a good conversation.

I let it run a lot longer than most startups for the rest of us episodes. Dan and I have

known each other. I don't even know now. Probably a decade is a little long, but nine, eight or

nine years. He and I have only met in person once, but I have followed his journey. He's written

several books. You'll hear me talk about a few of them in our conversation. And he went from having

a couple failed SaaS efforts to then starting a product-to-service that grew quickly and he sold

to GoDaddy. And now he runs a brewery, a very successful brewery doing north of $10 million a year

in revenue down in Australia. Dan and I talk through success and exits and what changed in his

and my life after we sold our companies, Dan actually turns the table on me towards the end of the

interview, probably about 40, 50 minutes in and starts asking me questions about selling drip

and my thoughts on all kinds of things that that I think will be interesting

for you to hear it. I gave a lot of thoughts that I maybe haven't said in public before,

and I appreciated that Dan was willing to come on the show and spend, spend over an hour with me.

Before we dive into this conversation, you should go to microconv remote.com.com.combe remote

if you're an early stage

SaaS founder. MicroConf Remote is happening in just a couple weeks towards the end of March,

and we are digging in to five early stage marketing approaches for SaaS. Each keynote is going to be

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