what are we doing is all I'm asking. Me personally, I think that people like Bernie, who

have the credibility that he does, needs to not be spending time doing CNN town halls with

AOC, casting about, I don't even know what my takeaway from that was supposed to be, acting as

though we're still in a persuasion moment as opposed to an action moment,

and instead be following the lead of the Chicago mayor who's talking about general strikes,

talking about mobilizing outside of the Democratic Party,

getting those huge crowds to join other kinds of organizations outside of the party apparatus.

That can mount a real challenge to the Democratic Party. I would say including third parties. I would say including third parties.

I think there needs to be a credible threat to the Democratic Party. The same way that there was

in the 30s and 40s during all of that labor activity, you know, during all of those New Deal

gains that everyone likes to brag about and pound their chest about as an example of left

success, but doesn't exist today. The Communist Party that we all know was there as a greater evil

that made the New Deal a good compromise doesn't exist today. And if you bring it up at a DSA, no offense

the DSA, but if you bring it up in a lot of left circles, people scoff and roll their eyes at you. Thinking that pledging vote blue, no matter who forever, is at all going to influence the outcome of the Democratic Party. At the end of the day, David, I don't know how you can, how a person can believe that they have any influence over a party if they're always willing to vote for it

to stop Trump or whatever. how a person can believe that they have any influence over a party if they're always willing

to vote for it to stop Trump or whatever version of Trump has manifested in the moment.

And I can't get away from that inescapable logical truth.

I can't get away from that.

I look at the blue states and I think the lack of factionalism, whether it's third party

or whether it's inside the Democratic Party, I look at the complacency of blue states and I think

I make less of a distinction about third party versus inside the party, and I use the

umbrella term factionalism, meaning factionalism can be a good thing.

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