Episode 365: Children as Co-Victims of Coercive Control with Dr. Emma Katz
The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast
Kate Anthony
4.4 • 573 Ratings
🗓️ 16 April 2026
⏱️ 57 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
I am so glad to bring Dr. Emma Katz back to the show. She is a senior lecturer in criminology at Edgehill University and one of the world's leading experts on coercive control. She is the author of Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives and writes the Substack Decoding Coercive Control, where she makes this research clear to process and digest for anyone navigating it in real life.
Today we are focused on children and their lived experience of coercive control, and what actually supports them when one parent is trying to protect them inside constrained systems.
In this conversation we explore what children are actually experiencing as co-victims and co-survivors of coercive control, both inside the home and after separation, when the tactics don't stop, they just shift. We get into what protective mothers can actually do to support their kids, why your own survival is already a road map, and how to talk to your children about what is happening in a way that helps them make sense of it without putting them in more danger. We also go deep on family court and why court-ordered systemic therapy in a coercive control situation is, in Emma's words, a match made in hell.
What you'll hear about in this episode:
- How coercive control intensifies for children after separation, and what they are experiencing when they move between homes (2:34)
- How to talk to your children about abuse in a way that is ongoing, depersonalized, and actually safe (27:06)
- Family court and systemic therapy: how to navigate it strategically when you have no choice (35:36)
- The changes Emma is seeing in family court in the UK, why the US is moving in the opposite direction, and what that means for protective mothers (44:20)
- Final advice for protective mothers on building the anti-coercive control environment in your own home, and why even when you cannot fix what is happening, making your child feel heard is already so much (50:42)
✨ If you'd like to watch the video version of this episode, you can find it here.
Learn more about Dr. Emma Katz
Dr Emma Katz is Associate Professor at Durham University. She is an award-winning expert in domestic abuse and coercive control, whose work has influenced policy and professional practice in the UK and globally.
Dr Katz's book, Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives (published in 2022 by Oxford University Press) is described by Professor Evan Stark as a 'pioneering work that will change how we understand and respond to children's experience of domestic abuse'.
Follow Dr Katz on Substack to receive her popular blog Decoding Coercive Control with Dr Emma Katz.
Resources & Links:
Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate
The Divorce Survival Guide Resource Bundle
Phoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment Collective
Kate on Instagram
Kate on Facebook
Kate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch
The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube!
Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce
Connect with Dr. Katz:
Dr. Katz's Substack: Decoding Coercive Control
Dr. Katz on Instagram
Dr. Katz on LinkedIn
Dr. Katz on Facebook
Dr. Katz on YouTube
Books Mentioned:
Floss and the Boss
Luna Little Legs
Talking to My Mum: A Picture Workbook Workers, Mothers, Children Affected by Domestic Abuse
Talking About Domestic Abuse: A Photo Activity Workbook to Develop Communication Between Mothers and Young People
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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM.
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Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-365-children-as-co-victims-of-coercive-control-with-dr-emma-katz/
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | There's good news and there's bad news to this. Obviously, it's really bad news that the children are affected by coercive control in very similar ways to their mums and that they are victim survivors too. And every loving parent would wish that wasn't true. But it's also a little bit of good news in the sense that the victim survivor probably already has some idea of what helps somebody |
| 0:23.1 | who's going through coercive control because they know what's helped them. They have gone through |
| 0:27.5 | it too. So what's happening to their children isn't like mysterious or difficult to understand |
| 0:34.1 | because they already have their own expertise in it from what they have been through. |
| 0:42.6 | Welcome to the Divorce Survival Guide podcast, where we have open and honest conversations about |
| 0:49.2 | co-parenting, separation, divorce, and the hardest question of all, should you stay or should you go? |
| 0:56.6 | I'm Kate Anthony, your divorce survival guide, and I'm here to help you navigate some of |
| 1:02.2 | the roughest waters you've ever swum in and answer some of your toughest questions. |
| 1:07.3 | I've been to hell and back, and now it's my mission in life to help you get to the other side of this process with your sanity and your heart intact. |
| 1:21.6 | Hey everyone, welcome back. I am joined today by Dr. Emma Katz, who has been on the show before, and who is an amazing wealth of information. She's associate professor at Durham University, an award-winning expert in domestic abuse and coercive control, whose work has influenced policy |
| 1:48.1 | and professional practice in the UK and globally. We need a little bit more over here on this side |
| 1:53.6 | of the pond. Emma is the author of coercive control in children's and mothers' lives. It is a book |
| 2:00.0 | that was described by Professor Evan Stark, |
| 2:02.5 | who is another leading researcher on all of this as a pioneering work that will change how we |
| 2:08.7 | understand and respond to children's experience of domestic abuse. Emma also writes the |
| 2:14.8 | substack decoding coercive control with Dr. Emma Katz, which you guys all need to subscribe to, pay for the paid version so you get all of this information. In her substack, Emma really brings a lot of clarity to how coercive control operates in families, systems, and in children's lives. Today we're going to focus on children |
| 2:35.0 | and their lived experiences, of course, of control and what actually supports them when one |
| 2:42.1 | parent is trying to protect them inside of constrained systems. Emma, thank you so much for being here. |
| 2:53.6 | Thanks so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to talking about all of this. And I should just give a shout out actually to my new |
| 2:58.6 | employer because I'm no longer at Durham. I'm now a senior lecturer in criminology at Edge Hill |
| 3:04.4 | University. Your new digs wonderful. Your work remains as just seminal and |
| 3:11.8 | important. And I want to start here. In your work, you are clear that children are not just |
... |
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